Here's my argument for eating meat: I enjoy
it. I prefer meat from humanly raised animals fed their natural diet and slaughtered with as little cruelty as possible, but I'm not giving up meat.
Reshared text:+Grug Crood: "If humans continue to eat up all the plant life, the cows and deer and pigs will die anyway."
Quite the contrary; humans all switching to a plant based lifestyle causes the problem of food abundance
, not shortages.
The reason for this is that, depending on whose numbers you want to trust, each pound of edible animal flesh requires between four to thirteen pounds of plants to produce. In essence, we're filtering protein/energy through animals before consuming them, and are doing so at a substantial
Putting aside for a moment the health, environmental, and social issues inherent to agribusiness, when we do stop raising animals in order to eat their bodies and instead use that agricultural land to produce human-edible goods, we'll be able to feed the world many times over with food to spare, and we'll do so while using a fraction of the farm land.+Grug Crood: "If cows, pigs, deer, and the rest of our meat sources were allowed to continue to breed unchecked, they would have to be killed anyway."
Not only is this claim wrong, it's very
wrong. Agribusiness tightly controls the number of animals produced, and they do so via artificial insemination (google "rape rack" for more info on this). We're not eating them all because animals are breeding unchecked and we're fighting to keep the population down; rather, the market currently requires these numbers of deaths, and suppliers are carefully meeting that demand. So, while more and more people are living by their values each year and not eating animals, this is a gradual process, and as demand deceases, the production managers are correspondingly decreasing supply.
In short, we're not facing the situation you describe in any way, and there's no reason to believe we ever will.+Grug Crood: "There are no animals that I am aware of that do not eat meat of some sort. Even cows eat insects that are on the grass. Pigs do. Dolphins do. Elephants do."
Regardless of your knowledge about the plethora of herbivorous animals, humans are not
cows, pigs, dolphins, or elephants. Comparing our diets to theirs is no more beneficial than looking at a dung-beetle claiming that since eating poo works for him then it should work for us.+Grug Crood: "If YOU were an insect, a cow would eat YOU too and think nothing of it."
I grant your premise: if things where different, then they wouldn't be the same... But I'm not
an insect or a cow. I'm a human, therefor I (and you) must consider what are right and moral actions from the context of being a human.+Grug Crood: "When you allow other animals to kill others, you are just as guilty as they are."
Perhaps the issue here is your use of the word "allow", +Grug Crood
, which implies that one has control over the situation. For example, if a human lives in a house in which there are cats in their care, and one of those cats catches a mouse, and
the human has the opportunity to save that mouse from the cat, then
we might be able to establish some culpability for the mouse living or dieing -- specifically because there is a relationship between those beings.
That said, baring some social tie between two entities, there's absolutely no moral or logical basis to claim that one
being is morally responsible for the actions of another
. If you
go out and kill someone tonight, I'm
not guilty of your doing so, and vice versa. It's not reasonable to assert this, and it makes no sense to claim it is so. But even if someone is
illogical enough to believe that
, to then build on this nonsensical reasoning by claiming that one is morally justified in killing and eating animals because, for example, a lion kills an antelope, is a position that's utterly
devoid of reason.
But... It's noteworthy that you also don't actually
believe this assertion of yours to be true. If you did, you'd be living by the premise that all the evil done is the world is your fault, and you clearly don't believe this to be so (based on the content of this thread alone, if nothing else).+Grug Crood: "I am eating a prime rib right now."
Hmm... Making such a statement suggests a wish to taunt me, which again speaks to the insecurities you're apparently feeling on this issue, +Grug Crood.
For the sake of the sentient beings being hurt and killed by such actions, I earnestly hope you come to live in alignment with your values and reconsider the morality of needlessly killing sentient individuals.(... and
then +Grug Crood blocked me...) =o/
—☆—★—☆—★—☆—★—☆—★—☆—★—☆—★—This post is one in a series in which excerpts of discussions on veganism from other threads are reposted (or paraphrased) for the sake of expanding the conversation. As always, your thoughts and questions are welcome. See the full collection via the #spommveganchats hash (or perhaps with a more robust search, such as goo.gl/JoxZC ).
_... (for anyone requiring/desiring more context, the original conversation can be found at goo.gl/BL0evn)..._ #logicalfallacies #animalrights #vegan